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Auteur Fil de discussion: Is Copyright Infringement theft?  (Lu 354 fois)
cpt_chris
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« Répondre #15 le: 20 septembre 2010, 08:16:20 »
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Ideas are more valuable than physical gold.
i believe ideas are completely worthless unless they are executed. you could patent an idea for an industrial product or copyright a method but until it is actually put to use or built, it has no actual worth. perhaps one could say they are priceless not in a sense of infinite value but in a sense that they can't have any determined value.

true piracy, i think we can all agree, should be illegal. that is taking an artists work, making a copy of it, then selling it for financial gain. when a consumer buys a pirated copy of an artists work you have proof they are willing to spend money on that artistic work but the money goes to some crafty cheat who contributes nothing to the world: the middleman, pushing money around. the same is not true for online copyright infringement. online "piracy" or copyright infringement can't be theft. the amount of material some people acquire is worth more than they can even afford. you can't consider it a lost sale because the consumer could not have bought it to begin with. since there is no way of determining what i would have or would not have bought had the internet not existed, no one can really say i got this for free rather than paying. it is enough for me to say "i just would not have purchased this if i couldn't get it for free". i could download 10,000$ medical software right now for free at no penalty to the developers and no cost to me. to say i stole something is crazy. i just could not and would not have bought it otherwise. only good comes out of this because i now have a copy of it and no time was wasted. it's not theft, it's a miracle.

i find considering it theft protects interests of those who want to create a fabricated market for stuff that can now be free. if in theory we could download matter, the government would create a new bureau protecting architects, assembly line workers and craftspeople from losing their jobs because what they do could now could be done for free. if through history there was no charge for acquiring media content, we'd still have an abundant supply of art created by people with a passion. many of them would have unrelated jobs but the most successful ones could adapt their skills into something that can't be downloaded.
online copyright infringement is at full force right now. there are few effective limitations and restrictions preventing people from copying files that are not meant to be copied. i, as an artist, designer and aspiring software developer do not care for a world where money is the incentive to be creative. if all we had was art and software created by people who are passionate about what they do, we would rid the world of advertisements, shitty music and junk.
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« Répondre #16 le: 20 septembre 2010, 08:58:37 »
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They're worthless but invaluable.
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« Répondre #17 le: 28 octobre 2010, 12:59:00 »
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Meh I had a longer post prepared but I figure I'll just sum it up.

Rights holders would like you to feel non-commercial copyright infringement is theft, they actively make the comparison to taking money out of their pockets.

People however, get goaded into buying something by rights holders and find out it's total crap. Like say the movie you went to sucked so bad you walked out halfway through and felt like you should have gotten your money back... Yeah thats an adequate comparison to them thefting you back.

Everyone has presumably had an example of the latter.

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« Répondre #18 le: 28 octobre 2010, 03:21:50 »
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Or the movie that I downloaded, thought was great, and decided to see in theatres or buy on DVD?

Here's the real problem with file sharing: it ties the saleability of a product more closely to its actual quality than to the surrounding hype. The MAFIAA is very, very good at producing hype, but they're still trying to figure out the quality thing.
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« Répondre #19 le: 29 octobre 2010, 12:32:30 »
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SMS and Twitter have more effect on movie sales then copyright infringement.
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« Répondre #20 le: 29 octobre 2010, 03:13:09 »
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SMS and Twitter have more effect on movie sales then copyright infringement.

Clearly the MPAA should ban SMS and Twitter... rather than going after poor filesharers Smiley

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« Répondre #21 le: 29 octobre 2010, 01:28:54 »
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SMS and Twitter have more effect on movie sales then copyright infringement.

On an individual per-film level yes, but not on a macro level.
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« Répondre #22 le: 29 octobre 2010, 02:56:15 »
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Consider plagiarism. In academic circles, the one thing that you do not ever do is copy another's work and take credit for it. You will be flayed alive.

Do not mix up Copyright and Authors' right. When you commit plagiarism and take credit for someone else's work you infringe Author's right. If you obtain copy of some book and redistribute it with all the references to the actual author and so on you only infringe Copyright, but not the Authors' right.

Authors' right (to be known as an author of some work) is natural, while Copyright (to be in control of every single copy of your masterpiece) is artificial.

EDIT: Thank you for motivating me to check actual definitions of Copyright and Authors' right. Turned out that the term "Authors' right" is mostly used in Europe, this set of right is considered to be a part of Copyright in USA (could not find any article about Canada). In this case I think it is important to distinct this two ideas. I'll write a message about that later in a separate thread, as it is important topic.
« Dernière édition: 29 octobre 2010, 03:03:38 par voronaam »
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« Répondre #23 le: 29 octobre 2010, 04:32:01 »
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Citation
Do not mix up Copyright and Authors' right. When you commit plagiarism and take credit for someone else's work you infringe Author's right. If you obtain copy of some book and redistribute it with all the references to the actual author and so on you only infringe Copyright, but not the Authors' right.

Interesting notion. I had never heard of author's right before. I am not sure if  that is what Sean was getting at though. The question was whether or not we can find a way to distinguish between commercial and non-commercial infringement without relying on a notion of theft. Sean, I believe, was using a plagiarism as an analogy to prove his point.

I agree with Sean on this, commercial copyright infringement is more similar to plagiarism then it is to non-commercial infringement. With plagiarism your are robbing the creator of credit for his work, with commercial infringement you are robbing the owner of profits. This is what distinguishes these crimes from non-commercial infringement, where nothing is stolen only copied. Both academic credit and commercial profit are not things which can be digitally copied and thus what one gains that other loses. A straightforward example of theft.
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« Répondre #24 le: 30 octobre 2010, 10:02:03 »
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Interesting notion. I had never heard of author's right before. I am not sure if  that is what Sean was getting at though. The question was whether or not we can find a way to distinguish between commercial and non-commercial infringement without relying on a notion of theft. Sean, I believe, was using a plagiarism as an analogy to prove his point.
Yes. I was not specifically aiming at author's rights (or moral copyright, as it is known in Canadian law), but that is worth pointing out.
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