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Auteur Fil de discussion: Public Internet Infrastructure Rollout  (Lu 774 fois)
Concerned Citizen
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« Répondre #15 le: 14 juin 2010, 01:27:35 »
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That is true but 95% of Canada's population is concentrated on 5% of the landmass. The longest run of fiber is from coast to coast which should not be that difficult to achieve and really adding more backbone capacity cant hurt anyone since bandwidth requirements are only going to go up, not down.

Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.
-James Madison
Jay Frank
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« Répondre #16 le: 14 juin 2010, 01:38:22 »
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We're not building small houses here....
You're talking about connecting them together...that 5% is BS and you know it.
Think more along the lines of building all new roads to every home and you'll start getting an idea of the cost.
The Kiwi govs says this is gonna cost them 1.5B....as with all Gov projects it'll probably double or tripple that figure by the time it's done...
Now take that and multiply it by 40 for Canada.

J

The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.
-Plato
Nuitari
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« Répondre #17 le: 14 juin 2010, 03:32:20 »
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We already have the coast-to-coast backbones.

This is an example of one of them, and this one is even reserved to R&D customers.
http://ackbar.canet4.net/weathermap/canarie.html

The point of such a project would be to get residences & businesses connected to fiber Internet.

A lot of incumbents are spending a lot of money into milking their old infrastructures and it's depriving us of the service we need.

I'd personally prefer to have the "Homes with tails" scheme then to keep suffering under the lame excuses of Bell and the CRTC.
Kellythedog
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« Répondre #18 le: 30 juin 2010, 12:07:22 »
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Yes Nuitari I agree with what you said about the old incumbents and their old infa sctructures.
And what we need to remember is that this is all about establishing Net Neutrality.
The packet shaping, monitoring etc is all done by the people who provide that last mile of service. There first order of business is just that business, to satisfy the shareholders, that's why we get cached pages, throttles and my favorite "replacement ad pages for ones that are really 404's".
I want my internet raw and un filtered, I want to pay for a connection to a backbone, not the so called value added services, and if thats not possible, i should be able to switch providers easily not by having someone come back into my home and string some crappy 2 wire copper to a pole, but by someone in a routing station switch carriers.
I agree its expensive,But in the long run I think we would be better off. And if it really is so expensive and a bad idea then why would some of the carriers be starting to upgrade last mile to Fibre now.
Its all about priority's in spending Canadians hard earned money, I should think if there is a bit left over this would be a good place to put it. ( As well think of the jobs this would create)
again...its just a suggestion to get people thinking
phro
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« Répondre #19 le: 30 juin 2010, 11:02:50 »
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It is rare for me to attempt to be a voice of reason, I love crazy schemes, so bear with me.  Are we really discussing building a government run ISP to compete with the ISP's the free market has provided (for good or ill)?

Conceptually this is an interesting idea, but we should be honest enough with ourselves to admit that such an idea is simply an unrealistic expense for Canadian taxpayers to bear.  Perhaps we could begin somewhat smaller?  For example, Finland just made high speed internet access a legal right for every citizen.  I seem to recall this idea being hotly debated on the previous forum iteration.  I haven't got the first clue how they might do such a thing, perhaps Lite(tm) connection subsidies for the poor? 

At any rate, does anyone really think that this proposal is a more realistic solution than stronger regulation of existing infrastructure that protects both consumer and providers rights?  If so, please let's discuss how it could be possible before we debate if it is worth while.

A humbly offered note for CC: Your writing style has a good clear voice, not an easy thing to learn or teach.  My only suggestion would be less complexity. See this guy for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Zinsser. Also the first sentence is.  A fragment.
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« Répondre #20 le: 1 juillet 2010, 09:34:52 »
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It is rare for me to attempt to be a voice of reason, I love crazy schemes, so bear with me.  Are we really discussing building a government run ISP to compete with the ISP's the free market has provided (for good or ill)?

i made a thread about this in the old forum supporting it.
i fully support a single public isp in canada as long as other major isps don't exist. the government should convert or simply take over major isps and the whole telecommunications industry. i don't think people are realizing how important and indispensable the internet is yet. to leave it in the hands of bell and rogers is irresponsible. over 80% of the country uses cell phones and the internet. with public electricity in quebec, public health care and public roads, why is something as important as communication still under control of these fools that few people are satisfied with? i have a computer and phone with impressive, powerful technology that is crippled in this country by high prices and low speeds. 8$/mo. for caller id and you expect me to support rogers and a corporate communications industry?

i am doubtful that administering this system would cost canadians more than it already does. all the money spent by rogers and bell on their marketing campaigns could be put to better use. think of all that money that goes to waste putting billboards and ads up just so they can steal customers from one another. according to rogers 2008 annual report, they spent nearly a billion dollars that year on marketing their wireless and cable operations. correct me if i'm wrong but if canada had a public system wouldn't all this money we're paying go to better use? after all we're being taxed by these companies so they can post pictures of smiling hippos and thin people on our buses. if we had a single isp, marketing would not be required. our public hospitals don't spend their time and money running smear campaigns against each other because they don't compete, they just operate.

medical equipment in hospitals are created and purchased from private corporations and so should communications hardware under a public system. cisco, apple, microsoft, rim, motorola and whoever else would continue doing what they do. the companies who create our modems, routers, switches and cell phones are doing a great job and the job of the public communications network would simply be managing, setting up and running the service. customers would buy their phones and hardware and plug themselves into canada's internet and phone service. it doesn't even need a name or logo. no contracts and no bullshit. just the internet, raw and unfiltered, net neutral and free of business interests.

i'm no economist but i just have a hunch that if managed right (which compared to rogers and bell would require little effort), this is a proper solution for canada. the internet is an essential service and we should have the right to access it.
it should be our policy to promote or at least study if a public telecommunications system in canada is feasible. we can, because we're awesome and don't use ink and feathers to communicate. we're the youngest and therefore most modern party in canada.

if the highway system is public then so should the information highway.

while we're at it, let's phase out fax machines, snail mail, cheques and these primitive tokens called coins and create an online health and monetary system. these are my ultra progressive tech proposals. one thing at a time though.
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« Répondre #21 le: 2 juillet 2010, 12:22:36 »
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Yeah... If you got rid of the government waste you could probably build Public Internet Infrastructure coast to cost three times over Tongue but that's just wishful thinking on my part.

Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.
-James Madison
phro
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« Répondre #22 le: 2 juillet 2010, 01:34:42 »
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Citation
... it should be our policy to promote or at least study if a public telecommunications system in canada is feasible.

That's what I'm saying.  Let's put some effort into examining feasibility before considering a firm platform stance. Perhaps this could be a subheading of supporting digital sovereignty?  A commitment to thoroughly examining any and all options to ensuring Canadians first class,  unfettered access to the internet.

If we go out there announcing that we intend to do things that are obscenely expensive, difficult legally, or both right off the hop people will think we're another Rhinoceros Party.
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« Répondre #23 le: 2 juillet 2010, 02:17:02 »
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Hello everyone,
   I arranged a meeting and visited with Adam Giambroni. Giambroni is the Toronto Councilor in charge of the TTC. The interview was regarding open wireless being made available throughout public transit. Mr. Giambroni was very open throughout the discussion though he was not informed about wireless technologies. Our discussion touched upon providing open and neutral net access to Toronto citizens.

   Brief Summary:
      The city of Toronto has received staff members for purposes of researching the possibility of wireless at subway platforms.
      Giambroni is holding a RFP during the fall of this year or spring of next year and expects offers from both Bell and Rogers.
      Their offer must include supporting the competitors wireless technology (CDMA vs GSM). No support of 802.11b/g/n/i/s is expected.
       No mention of public or neutral wireless technologies has reached him previously.
       He has no objections to open wireless and claims to be a supporter of network neutrality.

    Personal opinion:
     Giambroni's estimates that installing wireless in the TTC were grossly overestimated ($30 million).
     That the public deserves a "free" (as in both speech and beer) wireless service on their public transport network.
      That the Internet infrastructure is either already in place or could be cheaply assembled to support 802.11 deployment.
      That the pirate party could offer a bid to do the installation (provided we could find construction crews to run wiring).
      That the bid process should demand that wire be run for a wireless network deployment alongside proprietary technologies.
      That Fiber would be preferable but that CAT-6 or even VDSL compliant RJ-11 cable would be sufficient.

    Synopsis:
       Giambroni has no objection to an open wireless standard being available to the public. However it would not be expedient to install the technologies separately and there will be little political will to install open access once paid access is in place. Clearly the cost of installing them concurrently will be less than installing them separately. Finally the city of Toronto has taken a clear stance in support of network neutrality through the ONE-Zone-wireless initiative started by Ontario Hydro and a stance that is in danger of falling by the wayside with this latest push into proprietary Internet service. Thus the presence of public use wireless on the subways serves as a key tipping point in the battle against closed networks and ultimately network bias.

     Please attend future Toronto meetings at the Linux Cafe to discuss raising political awareness surrounding this issue.

    Sincerely Deliverance, a future cabinet candidate for the PPoC.
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« Répondre #24 le: 3 juillet 2010, 02:22:18 »
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Finally the city of Toronto has taken a clear stance in support of network neutrality through the ONE-Zone-wireless initiative started by Ontario Hydro and a stance that is in danger of falling by the wayside with this latest push into proprietary Internet service. Thus the presence of public use wireless on the subways serves as a key tipping point in the battle against closed networks and ultimately network bias.

     Please attend future Toronto meetings at the Linux Cafe to discuss raising political awareness surrounding this issue.

    Sincerely Deliverance, a future cabinet candidate for the PPoC.



I gotta tell ya m8....I'm very impressed with your angle and initiative here and you are absolutely right....there IS an incredible amount of redundant interconnected available and unused bandwidth in the hydro grid.  Have you ever used Ontario Hydro as an ISP?
I'm very curious what the latency and throughput is like on their network....

J

The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.
-Plato
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« Répondre #25 le: 3 juillet 2010, 05:11:11 »
+1

http://www.onezone.ca/tech_brief/OneZone_TechBriefingPPT_07-20-06.pdf

Here's how they rolled it out....
Looks pretty straightforward and totally bypasses the need to buy "spectrum" from the Gov.
Pretty slick...deserves further investigation.

J

The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.
-Plato
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« Répondre #26 le: 3 juillet 2010, 05:42:01 »
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Interesting concept... certainly this is an innovative way to deliver internet service from an industry that traditionally has been exceptionally conservative (Electric Utilities)

Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.
-James Madison
Jay Frank
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« Répondre #27 le: 3 juillet 2010, 07:06:38 »
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http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16852253

Look at that upstream!!! 
Beautiful!

J

The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.
-Plato
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« Répondre #28 le: 15 juillet 2010, 02:13:38 »
+1

alberta actually has a government owned fiber, it is called the alberta supernet and is run by a company called Axia SuperNet Ltd based out of calgary, which just resells it to bell, rogers, telus etc



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_SuperNet
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« Répondre #29 le: 15 juillet 2010, 02:53:30 »
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alberta actually has a government owned fiber, it is called the alberta supernet and is run by a company called Axia SuperNet Ltd based out of calgary, which just resells it to bell, rogers, telus etc



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_SuperNet

If this is the case and it works for Alberta perhaps it can be done elsewhere.

Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.
-James Madison
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