[bastles]

I see two major problems right now:

1 - Large incumbent carriers that have become complacent because "Nobody can match there networks"
2 - Government's incapacity to think beyond the "Right now"

OK so point 2 can only be changed with time and effort so let's not talk about that.

The first point I have a constructive solution to that on we need to grow our own Fiber optic network ( I can here the laughs  in the background ), bear with me on this one. I have been investigating deploying a fiber-to-the building/home for about four to six months now and  have been studying the economics of deploying it over an entire city. Over the last 5 years fiber optic prices have dropped significantly and the technology has progressed to a point where the deployment has become feasible even in a fairly dispersed city. The only thing that is missing from the equation is the initial investment  and the required infrastructure which judging by the amount of venture capital that is going to vaporware, I think that we could get a fair slice of investment for a tangible deployment of current and reliable technology.

[Joshua Doucet]

I kinda like the idea that we can do more than be a fringe party in Canada. We have our own torrent tool and it gets a bit of notice, but what Bastles is talking about would get  a lot more notice.

There is multiple issues,
-cost which would require significant start up cash in the way of fundraisers, investors, etc
-This could essentially turn the party into a company rather than a federal party and from that lose focus.
-I haven't a clue where one would begin with this.
-Failure might ruin the party.

On the upside,
-If successful its a huge gain for Pirate Party support plus lets not forget money.
-It competes with the terrible alternatives such as the big bad internet companies.
-It would be a stand such as the Pirate Party in Sweden running the Pirate Bay out of Parliament.

The idea while not bad hasn't been fully thought out. We are a democratic party and by that if you could put together a tight, strong report and get people to vote for it then great, otherwise we move on to other things.

[bastles]

I was not thinking that the political party would be the "Hosting/ISP" but more of a catalyst of sort getting people together.
I would be looking more for a "think tank".
The party can be considered to be a political flag ship and several smaller/medium enterprises can be the small fast gun boats 

P.S. I am looking in to venture capital to actually start this type of deployment in my home town.

[trailblazer11]

I was telling my friends that's what we should do. Or something similar. Get a T1 line so as not to be throttled or restricted by their bandwidth limiting plans. But then CRTC came along and gave Bell the go signal to charge independent ISP per bandwidth so that plan of mine got shot out the door. Since my getting T1 line plan would involve getting it from one of the major carrier.

Getting own fiber-optics line? Never thought of that and could work in urban centers. Maybe we could get a co-operative going. Co-op of independent internet providers. It could start in Urban centers. Make it non-profit and all profit goes to expanding the backbone.

[Jay Frank]

Your ISP is not the enemy.

J

[Jay Frank]

I was telling my friends that's what we should do. Or something similar. Get a T1 line so as not to be throttled or restricted by their bandwidth limiting plans. But then CRTC came along and gave Bell the go signal to charge independent ISP per bandwidth so that plan of mine got shot out the door. Since my getting T1 line plan would involve getting it from one of the major carrier.

Getting own fiber-optics line? Never thought of that and could work in urban centers. Maybe we could get a co-operative going. Co-op of independent internet providers. It could start in Urban centers. Make it non-profit and all profit goes to expanding the backbone.

I would feel very throttled on a T1 connection.  I have 100/5 with a 500GB monthly "soft cap" for $160/month. (No overage fees but a polite email/phone call if I exceed the cap repeatedly).  If i'm willing to spend the money I can get fiber to my door anywhere in BC.
Your internet service provider is not a "community service".  It is a for profit publicly traded company.

J

[trailblazer11]

Our ISP is not our enemy unless they happen to be Bell or Rogers who controls the backbone. I want to see independent ISP succeed. But recent CRTC ruling allowing Bell to charge these small ISP similar to how they charge their customer - metered according to bandwidth usage, would effectively stifle their competition. Should the government own the internet backbone? Argument against that is that it would discourage private investment on internet infrastructure.

There are talks of equal access to high speed internet for both rural and urban areas. MTS of Manitoba estimated the cost of rolling out such infrastructure would be in the billions of dollars and would be shouldered by the customer. Could it be called equal access if not everyone can afford it?

 

[bastles]

Getting own fiber-optics line? Never thought of that and could work in urban centers. Maybe we could get a co-operative going. Co-op of independent internet providers. It could start in Urban centers. Make it non-profit and all profit goes to expanding the backbone.

That would work but it is hard to align with investors if you are a not for profit. I more envision a for profit while still expanding and being extremely "cut throat" on the pricing  while still providing above par support and services

[cpt_chris]

until i see evidence that a single not-for-profit isp would not be feasible in canada, i will continue to support the idea.
introducing more competition will create even more redundancy and waste. maximum efficiency cannot be achieved with billions spent on marketing the internet and cell service every year.
if we create a public telecommunications system, just as canada post is a public communications service, we can have great efficiency, plan which transmission method to deploy across the country and expand access for everyone.
having multiple companies scramble to lay out landlines, cables and fibre and see which works best isn't very efficient. there is one internet and that calls for one isp.

[..] estimated the cost of rolling out such infrastructure would be in the billions of dollars and would be shouldered by the customer.

everything is shouldered by the customer, private or not. rogers spent one billion dollars to plaster the planet with their advertisements last year. who do you think is paying for all this marketing?

[Jay Frank]

Please provide evidence that Rogers spent 1 billion dollars on advertising last year.
I simply don't believe it.

J

[bastles]

Rogers spent one billion dollars to plaster the planet with their advertisements last year. who do you think is paying for all this marketing?

You need to spend money on advertisements if you want to attract clients even if you are a NFP (Not-for-profit) or not. If you do not nobody will know you exist. Even the cheapest service/gadget needs marketing i.e How do you get potential clients to see/use your product. A general rule for any company is for ever $ of revenue you require an equal or greater marketing value. Companies do not want to spend money on ads and other publicity but they have to in order to attract more customers.

So the question is how do you get the biggest exposure to potential clients for each $ invested in marketing.

P.S. Printing a flyer and distributing it to residents in a city is a form of marketing.

[cpt_chris]

at this point in time, people with mobile phones and internet have it for convenience, not because they were convinced by an ad. without advertising in this market, everyone who requires phones or internet would consider their friends recommendations or use a service to understand availability and pricing in their area.
with a public system, ads would not be necessary because the service is nearly essential. the demand would determine how much has to be supplied. take hydro quebec for example. over 90% of quebec uses their services and i can't recall seeing an ad in attempt to attract customers.

Please provide evidence that Rogers spent 1 billion dollars on advertising last year.
I simply don't believe it.

that statistic would not surprise me at all, personally.
this is rogers 2009 annual report on page 83, sales and marketing: 1.203 billion dollars. if you search for the word marketing in the pdf, you can see how much they spent in each sector. 603 million was spent marketing their wireless services.
i'm not exactly sure what the sales in 'sales and marketing' means but i'll assume for the most part it involves the money they spend plastering public transport, newspapers, magazines, billboards, tv, etc, with images of shiny toys and happy people.
regardless of how much they spend, it's a lot. this spending of our money just moves customers from one company to another, saving them a few dollars but ultimately accomplishes nothing positive.

anyway, i'm just introducing some variety to our list of options. public internet/mobile service is a radical but i think it's an idea worth considering. let's not kick these companies where it hurts, let's abolish them entirely and end the waste and frustration they cause.

[bastles]

Anyway, i'm just introducing some variety to our list of options. public internet/mobile service is a radical but i think it's an idea worth considering.

Don't get me wrong I have had that dream since the internet entered my life 18+ years ago, but as I grew to understand how the world works I realized that it has less and less chance to work. Hydro Quebec is a government owned for profit monopoly. They jerk us around like we are some animal attached to a leash ( the need for  electricity ).

I also have lately learnt about how the public health system owns buildings but does not care about renting for profit they just ask the government for more money to cover there black hole. As some one told me "If I where to do that in a private corporation, I would loose my job!" So in my opinion we need to have a socially responsible private enterprise based on values that would discourage wasteful spending and abhorrently high salaries to CEO.

Also the public sector is too slow to react, with a high tech enterprise you need to be nimble and avoid bureaucratic nonsense, not exactly what the public sector is right now.

[Jay Frank]

Interesting link...I'll definitely look over that document when I have more time.

Thanks! +Karma

J

[Nuitari]

I also have lately learnt about how the public health system owns buildings but does not care about renting for profit they just ask the government for more money to cover there black hole. As some one told me "If I where to do that in a private corporation, I would loose my job!" So in my opinion we need to have a socially responsible private enterprise based on values that would discourage wasteful spending and abhorrently high salaries to CEO.

Actually a few hospitals rented out MRI machines while they were idle and there was a huge polemic on that but lefties.